Comments on: On Engendering Strong Reactions

By: Matt Aimonetti

Matt Aimonetti — Wed, 29 Apr 2009 23:09:15 +0000

Here is a comment Denise form comment #7 sent me by email and said she wanted to post before I closed the comments.

Hi Matt,

First, I think we both had a great conversation and I am glad that we were able to have it. We do differ on one point, but both of us were respectful of each other without altering our own personal views and values.

I want to say to everyone else that I disagree with both extremes on this subject and the rhetoric that took place, or any subjects for that matter. War of words accomplishes absolutely nothing for anyone, and this has turned into a public war of words

One side being arrogant, the other is being vengeful. Reminds me of the war between Israelis and Palestinians, seems so simple to solve, but until both sides make a compromise, it’s impossible to achieve. I admit that it did upset me to see some of the comments and I was angry at the whole situation. Then you take a deep breath and get hold of the situation.

Unfortunately, I fear my words will be lost in the accumulated anger, but I will say it, we need to close this public display of mutually assured destruction and time to tone down the rhetoric, on both sides. For all of you, here’s a quote that Matt and I seem to agree on:

“Your freedom ends where mine starts”

And Matt, try to get some sleep tonight, I know I will and so should everyone else.

Denise

By: Matt Aimonetti

Matt Aimonetti — Wed, 29 Apr 2009 19:34:04 +0000

Alright, I think the comments aren’t bringing much to the discussion anymore. Therefore I decided to close them to avoid further drama. If you want to keep on discussing the matter, please read Liz’s post: http://lizkeogh.com/2009/04/29/i-am-not-a-pr0n-star-avoiding-unavoidable-associations/ if you have a problem with me personally, come and chat with me at RailsConf.

- Matt

By: Laurent Sansonetti

Laurent Sansonetti — Wed, 29 Apr 2009 18:57:19 +0000

Aaron Farr: Matt surely defends his point of view but apologized numerous times for having shocked _some_ people. I copy/pasted a few portions below (there are many more, you can use Google). If you don’t consider this as an apology, what do you need more? Please elaborate.

“This topic was meant as a joke and I’m sorry if it goes against your personal values.”

“GoGaRuCo attendees who were offended, I’m sorry for offending you, I didn’t have that intention at all”

“I do sincerely care about the larger gender issues that my presentation touched off.”

“It genuinely was not my intention to cause offense.”

By: Aaron Farr

Aaron Farr — Wed, 29 Apr 2009 18:14:14 +0000

Rich, I agree with you that communities of diversity are extremely important. So important that one should take fewer risks to push away would be contributors. Intentionally using offensive material, be it by Matt or David or others, and then, more importantly, disregarding those offended does not create an inviting environment.

I’m less concerned with Matt’s mistake than I am with the pattern of this behavior and disregard by the Rails Core and Activist teams. More than anything, this will continue to incite and divide the very community you, Matt and David claim to want to grow.

By: Aaron Farr

Aaron Farr — Wed, 29 Apr 2009 17:59:58 +0000

Matt, you still don’t get it. You’re still defending yourself. You haven’t apologized. At most, you regret the bad publicity to Rails, not that you offended fellow developers.

What you’re missing is that this has gone beyond the presentation and even beyond the gender and minority issues to be largely about the response by you and the Rails Core team. It’s your response that is causing the real uproar and until you understand that, you’re going to keep digging yourself into a deeper hole. You’ve lost the battle on justifying your presentation. Now it’s about these larger issues and you’re losing that war as well.

This may sound harsh, but as one who is also in a position of influence in a large open source community, my suggestion to you and the entire Rails Core team needs to reconsider your narcissistic approach to community management. More thoughts on that here: http://cubiclemuses.com/cm/articles/2009/04/28/a-community-of-rockstars

By: teleolurian

teleolurian — Wed, 29 Apr 2009 14:56:46 +0000

Pft. This is an awesome slide show, and certainly leaves an impact on the viewer related to the functionality of the software presented. You get tired of car analogies over and over. Just consider you presentation to be pure win.

By: planetmcd

planetmcd — Wed, 29 Apr 2009 14:34:00 +0000

Mr. Aimonetti,
I think you made a mistake. From reading what your correspondence, I believe you regret the talk you gave, and would not probably use a similar approach in the future, and probably take it back if you could. I do get the sense you really wanted to convey how cool couchDB is, not cause a stir. By checking with some people, it does indicate you didn’t want to offend. I get that, and I applaud it. The problem was that your test sample knows you, they can separate the content of your presentation, from you. They have a framework against which to judge you. People at the conference and people who saw the slides, lack that context. So you are just a guy who put risque/soft porn pictures in a presentation.

Perhaps this episode will make you a bit more conscientious. And that is at least a good thing. It seems like you want to make things right, to get back to talking about code instead of social issues.

While I agree with others that you apology does not come across as completely contrite, with its caveats and whatnot, I understand that as an individual you don’t believe that you embody the notion of misogyny in IT being laid against you.

I agree, you made a mistake, and its not fair that henceforth you may be judged by 1 incident, 1 mistake. So I hope you understand that others dislike or resent the notion that they may be judged or pigeonholed by forces out side of their control, such as minority status.

The problem nerve, that women in technology face challenges being treated as peers, that your talk exposed is not of your creation, but that doesn’t mean the larger concerns aren’t real and when you dismiss them and more importantly when large swaths of the community dismiss them, the problem remains.

By: Mark Caudill

Mark Caudill — Wed, 29 Apr 2009 14:19:56 +0000

Rather than bicker, argue, and contend one’s personal disgrace at the supposed objectification by Matt perhaps the effort would be better suited helping women CS students with scholarships. If even half of the people complaining about this issue donated to a similar cause, they’d help this problem more than the bickering I’m hearing.

And to those who are making personal attacks against Matt (as well as attacks against the community), stop generalizing based on ONLY those parts of a whole that you choose to see. You’re finding one flaw to stab to death.

By: Alan Bell

Alan Bell — Wed, 29 Apr 2009 12:17:34 +0000

I am an all round geek and a bit of a couchDB fan, I read the slides, the only part that I found uncomfortable was the drugs reference when talking about ACID compliance. I had no problem with the rest of it and I am amazed nobody else seems to worry about the drugs bit. I probably would not have gone for such a bold theme myself, but if I were reviewing presentations for a corporate event I would only have cut one slide from that.

By: Elizabeth Keogh

Elizabeth Keogh — Wed, 29 Apr 2009 10:49:05 +0000

Hi Matt,

I’m not offended by your slideshow. I don’t think offense is useful. I also appreciate the clarification you’ve made here.

I’ve posted a fairly long and I hope thoughtful response, outlining some of the psychological stuff that goes on in people’s brains, how it can affect us and ways of avoiding those associations. I’d welcome your feedback.

http://lizkeogh.com/2009/04/29/i-am-not-a-pr0n-star-avoiding-unavoidable-associations/

Cheers,
Liz.